Realization of the Supreme Lord as a person
Dr Thoudam Damodara Singh (TD Singh)'s dialogue with Prof William D Phillips, Nobel Laureate
- Part 4 -

Radhamohan Das *

Sripada Bhaktisvarupa Damodara Maharaja ( Dr Thoudam Damodara Singh (TD Singh) ) :: Pix - Roshni Thokchom

Measuring time using "vibrations" of atoms - this is the principle behind today's advanced atoms clocks. Surprisingly, the similar concept has been presented in the ancient Vedantic text (Srimad Bhagavatam) - as per the above quoted one. Srimad Bhagavatam has been available in written form for more than 5000 years. There is a complete chapter entitled "Calculation of Time from the Atom" in this miraculous literature.

The basic principle involved is very simple. The atomic orbits correspond to energy levels, and electrons can only move between energy levels when they absorb or release just the right amount of energy. This energy is absorbed or released in the form of electromagnetic radiation. It is the exact frequency ofthis electromagnetic radiation required to make the transition of electron between the two energy levels which determine the measure of time. Thus, today, the second is the duration of 9,192,631,770 periods of the radiation corresponding to the transition between the two hyperfine levels of the ground state of the cesium 133 atom.

These spins can be aligned in the same direction or they can be aligned in the opposite direction. Now it takes energy to go from one to the other. Because of the magnetic field between them, to turn the spin of the electron requires that you either put in energy or take it out. That energy can be put in or taken out by shining microwaves onto the atom. In order to make the transition from one spin state to the other, you have to shine microwaves that have a very specific frequency. It is that frequency that becomes the ticking of the atomic clock. That frequency is a very specific number, 9.18 and a whole bunch of other digits, billions of cycles per second, GHz. When you shine exactly the right microwave frequency, you can make the cesium atom shift from one energy level to the other, and that frequency is what we use to keep time. We adjust our microwave frequency until it is just right to make that flip, and then you have a clock ticking at a certain nine and some giga-cycles per second, and that is our cI~ck. But that was a choice that we made because it seemed like a good choice; it seemed like a very stable way of doing it. Before atomic clocks, we made other choices ­ the rotation of the Earth was the original definition for the second. We say the day is divided into a certain number of seconds - 24 hours X 60 minutes per hour X 60 seconds per minute. That came to 86,400 seconds in a day - that was the definition of the Second. But people figured out it wasn't a very good definition since the Earth is slowing down. It does not provide a completely stable definition of time. So people thought about other ways and eventually the atomic definition of time became by international agreement, the way in which we define time. It might be that in the fUture we will come up with a different definition of time that is more precise and more capable of doing the things that we need to do, but for the moment this definition is working very well and we are using it to do all the things we need to do.

TDS then said that in the Vedic tradition, time is regarded as the impersonal aspect of God. Within the current cosmological Big Bang model, time is understood differently than it is in our tradition. In the Big Bang model, time begins just after the Big Bang, whereas in the Vedic tradition time is eternal.

Prof William D Phillips having agreed that there is the difference, said that we understand from the point of view of cosmology, that time does not have meaning before the Big Bang. He further said that early Christian scholars also said God created time when He created the universe.

TDS cemmented that time and space are connected. WDP also agreed and said it is one of the things that Einstein taught them, that time and space are interconnected, that we can't really separate time and space. That is a concept that they are still having a hard time understanding.

GPS (Global Positioning Svstem):

Prof William D Phillips explained the following. We are affected by things like the Global Positioning System (GPS).

What is GPS? Originally developed by the u.s. Department of Defense to provide all-weather round­the-clock navigation capabilities for military ground, sea, and air forces, GPS has also become an integral asset in numerous civilian applications and industries around the globe. GPS employs 24 spacecrafts in 20,200 km circular orbits inclined at 55 degrees. These spacecrafts are placed in 6 orbit planes with four operational satellites in each plane. GPS satellites transmit signals to equipment on the ground and the GPS receivers on ground convert the satellite's signals into position, velocity, and time estimates for navigation, positioning, time dissemination, or geodesy. GPS technology made a huge impact on navigation and positioning needs and it has become possible to track aircrafts, cars, cell phones, boats and even individuals. Today, GPS is finding its way into cars, boats, planes, construction equipment, moviemaking gear, farm machinery, and even laptop computers.

It is already a part of day-to-day life. If somebody delivers a package to you, he may use GPS to find your address.

The pilots use the GPS to navigate that airplane. So atomic clocks are already being used in things that do affect your life. Laser-cooled atomic clocks are the best atomic clocks. They are used in the synchronization of the GPS and also in satellites. There is a constellation of satellites each of which contains several atomic clocks. The satellites send information about the time, and with a GPS receiver you can receive these signals from several of these satellites and determine where you are anywhere on the surface of the earth. The atomic clocks in the satellites are not yet laser-cooled atomic clocks, but they are guided by a time system that uses laser-cooled atomic clocks. Then atomic clocks may be laser-cooled in the future. Charles Townes and his colleagues have invented the Laser, and for a while some people said that laser is a solution in search of a problem. But today nobody would say that, mainly because most of us have multiple lasers in our houses. In computer with a CD-ROM, there are lasers used in the reading and writing of the CD. In a telephone, often the voice transmission or data communication is done by fiber optics, which uses lasers to transmit information. So the invention of the laser has affected the daily lives in a way that is evident to people. Lasers are in our homes. But, it is not certain if anybody will use laser-cooled things in their homes in the future. But nowadays, a computer is in your microwave oven, a computer is in your washing machine, a computer is in your car. All these are computers that you may not even think about, in addition to the laptop or desktop computers that we have. But, at the moment, he could not see it, though some of these things would turn out to be household items in future that you never know.

Regarding the young scholars to a career in science, Prof William D Phillips said that they must maintain the childlike curiosity, as all of them start off with a tremendous amount of curiosity as children.

Dr. TD Singh supplemented by saying the meaning of the Vedanta. Veda means knowledge, and anta means end. Vedanta is the Hindu concept of the ultimate knowledge and ultimate reality. The first aphorism of Vedanta says, in Sanskrit, athato brahma jijnasa - meaning, one must be curious to search about it, the nature of the absolute truth. So, it is very very similar to what Dr. Phillips said about curiosity being the most important thing that a scientist can have. Regarding the saying by Roger Penrose, "in order to study consciousness we need a new science." - Prof William Phillips comments that he is not sure we'll be able to understand things like consciousness in detail using the kind of general methods that Francis Bacon or Galileo and others began with. He would also not say that the present methods for scientific investigation are incapable of understanding things as complex as consciousness. But he says that they do not have the tools that they require to understand it. Maybe we will never understand consciousness. He quotes a passage in their scripture that says now we are seeing in a mirror, dimly, but later, when we are in full union with God, we will see Him face to face. Right now our knowledge is imperfect, but later it will be perfect.

Dr. TD Singh said, "In our (Vedantic) tradition consciousness is regarded as existing in the spiritual realm - just like in matter we have fundamental particles, similarly consciousness is a fundamental property of the spiritual realm."

Phillips said, "I have a guess - this is only a guess, certainly not a scientific conclusion - that consciousness itself is a gift from God. That is something that is given to us, to creatures, not something that is part of the material nature of those creatures, but is an external gift that has a spiritual content. And those creatures that are spiritual are creatures that have this consciousness, have self-awareness. Now whether that is only a quality of human beings, I am not entirely sure. But certainly, it is something characteristic of living creatures and is not characteristic of non-living creatures."

Dr. TD Singh said, according to Vedanta, consciousness evolves from the lower form of life to the higher form. That is, all living forms have consciousness. Even single-celled animals have consciousness, but on a very, very low level.

WDP says, "For me, I do not see any conflict with my conception of God as the living Creator who wanted to have relationship with living, conscious creatures and the mechanism of His creation. ...We are divinely created beings; we have souls and we have responsibilities. Research won't change the fundamental truth that we have souls and that those souls connect with the divine."

TDS said, the soul, in Sanskrit, is called atman. Its symptom is consciousness and it is synonymous with life. Consciousness is the spiritual quality of life and is nonphysical and eternally existing. Unless the soul is in the body, unless life is within the body, the body will not develop. So we place priority on life and emphasize the transmigration of the soul, or evolution of consciousness. For an understanding of the soul, life or consciousness and its nature, it might be useful to have a deeper dialogue amongst different traditions.

WDP said, "God is wonderful and when I look at results of science, it just increases my wonder at how great God is - this is the answer when he was asked to give comment that there is a perception that science is atheistic, which he didn't agree, and which he said science is either atheistic or theistic, and science is science.

Both Prof Williams D Phillips and Dr.TD Singh - gave their viewpoints about how to bring peace and harmony in society, to be free from terrorism and man-made disturbances.

"if the two disciplines of science and spirituality, or science and religion were to work in a cooperative way, then I think there could be some important groundwork for achieving lasting peace, since scientists provide the intellectual background for making bombs and weaponry and the fanatic religious groups seem to be at the root of many conflicts. It would be very beneficial if the scientists and religious groups come together and discuss how to live peacefully by engaging in a very serious dialogue on how to use their respective fields of knowledge for the betterment of the whole human family."

Dr. Phillip's view on the religious conflicts perpetrated by those people who believe in a God of peace and love, yet it is hard to see that these conflicts are going to be easily resolved, "If somehow we can bring together the idea of openness present in science with religious thinking that has ideas of love and peace at its base, maybe that is the way. ...when people have love in their hearts, then things will change."

TDS referred to the scriptures and said that, "all the scriptures proclaim that we are all God's children. Hence we are all brothers and sisters although we speak different languages, have different religions. If we recognize and practice this culture of universal brotherhood and sisterhood because we have one common father, then the world will be a very different place."

As a last reaction in the dialogue, Prof William D Phillips said, "Certainly for me, everything that I do is made easier because of my faith in God, and I certainly think that it will be easier to solve the big problems that face this world if we rely on that faith."

Lastly Dr. TD Singh thanked Prof Phillips and expressed that he met several scholars around the world in different communities but his meeting with Prof Phillips is something very special which he will greatly treasure, and he felt that this must be the lord's arrangement, and to this Prof Phillip's gratitude is, it has been a blessing.

See a Photo Gallery of "Remembering Sripada Bhaktisvarupa Damodara Maharaja" here

Concnluded....