The MD forum debates sensitive issues of real and perceived meitei bigotry towards minorities in the light of opposition to meitei mayek in the hill areas.

Date: Tue May 10, 2005 3:53 am
Subject: : Is Meitei Mayek imposition on hills another meitei subjugation of minorities

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Manipur-Diaspora/message/3221

Are the "haos" being forced to follow the Meitei 'leadership' ?

Resisting the majority bullying the minority is essential and most if not all in our MD forum actively encourages that. However the question was not of the 'haos' being coerced to toe the meitei line but rightly questioning if there was a secret naga agenda to legitimise the breakup of Manipur under the cover of resisting the meitei mayek script.

The UNC statement went far beyond the legitimate right to resist a non native script but was audaciously stirring up trouble by questioning the authenticity of the existence of a meitei script. There is every right to chisel out a unique identity by all minority ethnic groups but any attempt seen as a ruse to break up Manipur under the cover of exerting that separate identity will be rightly questioned and challenged.

Meiteis must acknowledge past wrongs towards minorities

That has been acknowledged ad nauseum specially in this forum. However there exist fanatical right wing meiteis that do not and want to assert their majority and historical ascendancy and there could also even be a majority that secretly holds that view. But that domination is a quintessential result wherever a majority and a minority exist and gets magnified when opportunities available are limited. And that subjugation happens even today within the naga fold too by the stronger tribes imposing their will on the weaker tribes.

Manipur having had two tangkhul chief ministers is no big deal and does not necessarily percolate down to a more democratic attitude by dominant Meiteis to the 'haos'. Appointed a Muslim president during the BJP rule did not change their genocidal tendencies towards Muslims

IT IS A BIG DEAL !! and though the few with this fanatical hatred will continue unabated, the other huge population that mildly harbours such sentiments will be influenced into questioning that prejudice. The muslim public figures in the various professions contribute a great deal in easing the religious tensions but more importantly to empower their own people. I would rate the long stint of tangkhul CMs during the nascent statehood period specially at a period when the 'haos' were just emerging from ALMOST TOTAL meitei rule, as the highest factor in the empowerment of the nagas in Manipur than even those brought about by -
1. education and "collectiveness" engendered by the weekly church gatherings of Christianity and
2. the intellectual pool and leadership building through the SC/ST job and education reservations.
Besides the psychological empowerment, enormous funding for infrastructure development was poured into their constituencies. The current political representation in the Manipur gives plenty of clout to extract hills area development projects. It certainly cannot match those in the imphal areas but then nor can imphal match Delhi's nor remote nagaland areas match Kohima's or Dimapur's.

Much but certainly not all, responsibility lie with the corrupt local MLA and a perfect example was the recent case of a road project where money was all encashed with fake work completion orders despite no work being done. The engineers issuing the work completion orders were suspended (but would be reinstated once the heat was off the issue) but even though they could have willingly participated and benefited from it, it is the local MLA that exerts all the pressure on them to release the money with no signature required from him and hence saving him from any future investigation while these engineers risk the full brunt of the law with their signatures on the documents.

Date: Sat Jan 22, 2005 1:37 pm
Subject: : All those with magic wands .. weave your magic please !

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Manipur-Diaspora/message/2778

In a democracy a minority will continue to be disadvantaged. But more important, geographical barriers play an even bigger role and the valley will be a bigger hub of activity than the distant hills. Even in the valley area, development and opportunity will be seen more in the areas closer to the capital and this disparity will be wider when there are limited opportunities being fought over.

Nagaland will show the same patterns but because their capital luckily happens to be in the hills there will be a slight exception. But if you compare the plight of the populations of those near the capital and those away from both the states, you will see the same disparity of opportunities. But in Manipur because these 2 sets of populations are of distinct ethnic groups, the divide is falsely attributed SOLELY to an ethnic minority discrimination.

That discrimination does certainly exist to this day but the disparity in opportunities is more from the other factors and the existence of that in the other predominantly mono ethnic group NE states, is proof of that. It is also the same reason why the well off from the minority ethnic groups migrate to live in the imphal areas and worst still, resist being posted to serve their remote rural communities and instead lobby for a cushy posting in the capital.

Date: April 7, 2005 5:21 pm
Subject: : years failure - infrastructure upgrade and not reservation policy

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Manipur-Diaspora/message/659

"..I even support the lowering of the MBBS entrance marks for SC/STs to some extent because we need to have more doctors getting trained who will go and serve their people in the remote villages where the meiteis are reluctant to go to. However there should be a provision to ensure that students who get in through this SPECIALLY LOWERED quota are mandated to do a minimum few years in their remote communities…."

Despite the almost universal meitei support for reinstating the meitei script, the burning of the library by these fringe elements was condemned by more meiteis than others. If we are to go along with this sinister but ludicrous accusation of the meities burning up the library because it did not belong to the non meiteis, we must then question -

1. the depriving of 9/10 of the area of Manipur from meitei land ownership,
2. The job reservations that only the minority ethnic groups can avail but none from poor disadvantaged meitei families,
3. the constant transport blockade exploiting the geographical advantage for selfish hill people only agendas,
4. the huge tax that all transport vehicles have to pay to the NSCN which raises the cost of living to almost unmanageable levels for the majority poor populations

An honest assessment of these questions will highlight the concessions that the meiteis are making and the disadvantages and hardship that they too face in accommodating and appeasing the minority ethnic groups. This is not a minority ethnic group bashing exercise.

To reach a mutual agreement and understanding and live in peace and harmony, one must definitely voice their demands and grievances but it is more critical from the educated population to respect and acknowledge the others point of view too and not indulge in or prop up the divisive activities of the fanatical sections of our populations.

I vehemently oppose the imposition of the meitei mayek script on the non meitieis as they should be allowed to adopt the roman script if they prefer that to meitei mayek. I admit there is a very reasonable possibility of the meitei mayek dying off altogether by allowing roman script, as the meiteis too could prefer the roman script that they already know, instead of the newly introduced meitei script that they have to learn. But that significant threat of losing the script after all the efforts to resuscitate the script back to life is still a meitei problem and the non meiteis should not be forced to bear the burden for any attempts to ensure the survival of the meitei script.

But in light of all this development the meiteis must realize the ever growing threat and reality of the disintegration of Manipur, given our minimal political representation and the growing clout of the NSCN in getting only their side of the distorted history being presented to the ignorant central indian leaders who are only too keen to end the naga insurgency and will sell out anyone else it can, to achieve it.

That is why we must URGENTLY bring up the issue of the giving away of the Kabo valley to let India know MANIPUR WILL NOT BE SOLD OFF AGAIN TO APPEASE THE OTHERS. We were weak and ignorant and could be easily bullied and silenced then, but not anymore. This right wing stance is essential to neutralise the radical demands of the opposite camp. Acquiescence in this critical moment will only be seen as a sign of weakness and be exploited once again by the central indian govt.

The SC/ST for the meiteis question is a critical component to diffuse the threat of the break up of Manipur into greater nagaland. The meitei - 'hao' divide will be less prominent if we are all SC/ST and can mingle freely in a land for all manipuris instead of the current pockets habitated by different ethnic groups. The superiority of the meiteis that existed decades ago may still exist to some extent when compared to the minority ethnic groups WITHIN manipur, but is not the case when compared with the other SC/ST populations of the other NE states.

Nagaland, Mizoram and Meghalaya have similar, annual budget allocation, same educational, governmental institution and hence job and intellectual pool creation opportunities besides availing those additional opportunities that exist outside the state under SC/ST reservations. There is nothing more flawed than the assertion that SC/ST reservations for the meiteis will somehow bring about complacency and less drive amongst the meiteis.

SC ST debate from Manipuri Diaspora Group

SC status on Chairen people

http://www.e-pao.net/GP.asp?src=5.13.100505.may05
"…the people of Sugnu and Kumbi also belong to the SC category and therefore SC certificates should also be issued to the people of these areas and further said that other sections of the society should not feel jealous when SC certificates are issued to a particular community as it would not hurt their interest…."

Date: Tue May 10, 2005 3:53 am
Subject: : Is Meitei Mayek imposition on hills another meitei subjugation of minorities

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Manipur-Diaspora/message/3221

Date: Wed May 11, 2005 5:37 am
Subject: : Airing grievances without prejudice + Tainted Finger

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Manipur-Diaspora/message/3227

I used to debate ceaselessly, not with the egotistical intent to win the argument but to ensure manipulated information was not disseminated to the others. It was also an important learning exercise to form my positions on some of our complex issues which I was beginning to gather information on. But these days when I encounter such selective and biased interpretation of information (obviously strictly my sole judgement) SPECIALLY WITHOUT ANY ACKNOWLEDGEMENT OF BLATANTLY OBVIOUS FLAWED ARGUMENTS, I do not bother to rebuttal if I have already expressed my objections and arguments against it. It is best left to the intelligence of the members to form their opinion, instead of giving more air time for someone to again air their prejudices and clutter up members' mailboxes with unrelated grievances to the topic discussed.

But in this case I will make an exception for two reasons -
1. This ethnic tension is needless to say, a very important and sensitive issue and unlike most that sweep in under the carpet, I believe it must be bravely tackled early on with honesty and fairness by respecting the sensitivities but also courageously not skirting the sensitive issues too.

As someone who has continuously ranted about the subjugation of the NE by the Indians, I fully respect the anger and frustration of our own minorities, even though they are not really that insignificant a minority as the NE is within India.

Their non insignificant minority within manipur is obviously the very reason why they are able to voice for equality a lot more vociferously than the NE can to the India govt.

2. Grossly PREJUDICED views harboured by an educated person, should be challenged and questioned in more detail. There is plenty of legitimate reasons for grievances but when laced with prejudices, those prejudices must be targeted immediately before it is manipulated to incite ethnic tensions amongst the uninformed restive population.

It is TOKENISM that the condition of 'haos' improved overall just because of the two chief ministers

We look at the present and make the ignorant mistake of assuming the past was the same. The meiteis had ruled and totally dominated the other ethnic groups for centuries if not for millenniums, and subjugated and discriminated the "haos" on the grounds of both being perceived primitive and also religiously untouchable. These ethnic groups only had had a RELATIVELY MINISCULE 2 decades of political representation and of GRADUALLY being treated as an equal after Manipur came under indian rule.

Besides the obvious exception of their few intellectual leaders, the ENORMITY of the IMMEDIATE transformation to the psyche of the rest of the entire population of that ethnic group to suddenly see one of their own subjugated people being the head of the state, where they had been treated almost sub human for centuries, can not be treated lightly.

As I had mentioned before too, the older generation would recall stories of only a few decades ago, of the despicable and shameful treatment of the "haos" being not allowed to enter most meitei houses and even made to sleep over in the shed with the livestock ! So the overall improvement of the plight of the minority ethnic groups as of NOW, is certainly brought about more by the other factors, but significant weightage must be placed on this transformation to the psyche that TRIGGERED and CATAPULTED the empowerment of a people THEN that had only been meted out SUB HUMAN subjugation for centuries by the meiteis .

the Gujarat genocide happened PRECISELY when the BJP had appointed a token Muslim President

That is an instantaneous spark from FANATICAL FRINGE ELEMENTS which you will see from DOMINATING ethnic groups in EVEN the MOST EDUCATED and RICH DEVELOPED NATIONS. Forget a president, even GOD cant prevent these incidents !

Instead of ridiculously clubbing the entire population of pursuing the same sentiment of hatred, how about mentioning that the majority of the educated population are pursuing the perpetrators ? Will you also stick up for the kukis that were massacred by the Nagas who even to this day abuse their majority status and clandestinely pursue an ethnic cleansing drive in the hills ?

" Much but certainly not all, responsibility lie with the corrupt local MLA"

This is deflecting RESPONSIBILITY. In a democracy, the majority also has a duty to follow up with what is being done with grants and loans to the hill areas

When the non meiteis have a political representation of 20/60= 33% in the state assembly and 50% in the central govt, one cant be complaining of TOKENISM and diversion of funding ! Diversion will continue to happen as it is innate human nature for the majority to continue expropriating more than their share and it must certainly be checked. However before clamouring too much about TOKENISM one must use COMMON SENSE to realize that 33% OF POLITICAL POWERS IS A LOT FOR HONEST LOCAL POLITICAL REPRESENTATIVES OF THESE REMOTE AREAS TO DELIVER IN OVER HALF A CENTURY !

Election 2002 Rolls in E-pao.net

If the NE had enjoyed such a sizeable political representation in the central govt, I would squarely blame our own leaders for the pathetic state we are in. It is ridiculous to expect the same infrastructure and economic conditions in the valley and the hills for obvious reasons already explained before and that must not be construed as only borne from the meiteis continuing to subjugate the "haos".

Most funding does not get to the hills PREDOMINANTLY not because it is diverted to the valley by the meiteis, but because it gets swallowed up by the politicians and also by the separatist groups.

We continue to see many factories being set up in the hill areas of Manipur.

Bio - Shri Rishang Keishing

I would like to see a comparison of funding and infrastructure distribution to the remote areas with nagaland and mizoram before clamouring too much about subjugation by the meiteis. The meiteis cannot escape the 66% responsibility but WITH 33% POLITICAL REPRESENTATION COMES AN INESCAPABLE 33% RESPONSIBILITY FOR FAILURES !

Date: Tue May 10, 2005 3:53 am
Subject: : : lack of political voice - lack of infrastructure - catch 22

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Manipur-Diaspora/message/3221

"…Some big industries like the failed cement plant was set up in the hills by Rishang despite no long term viability of the location. Now that is what having the political clout achieves ! Jiribam actually is currently the most suitable location for setting up industries because of the train and power supply but that is ignored as it has no political voice…."

It is not the 'haos' fault that Meiteis were not farsighted enough to avail of the Indian offer to include them in the ST list.

It is not blaming anyone but highlighting that before clamouring too much about the subjugation by the meiteis, realize the SC/ST reservation advantages enjoyed at the expense of the meiteis too. If the "STUPID" meiteis were to demand that the DISCRIMINATORY ONE WAY restriction of almost 90% of the hill areas for only the 33% of the hill ethnic groups should be removed, would that be embraced and applauded as an equitable distribution demand and as being "FARSIGHTED" ?

"…the constant transport blockade exploiting the geographical advantage for selfish hill people only agendas.."

I was not contradicting my previous claim that the minorities are appeased but highlighting the "pot calling the kettle black" and the duplicity in crying out as the "virtuous maiden raped by the monstrous meiteis" ! For rapprochement and reconciliation to succeed, one must demonstrate integrity and honesty in accepting our own transgressions too instead of only pointing fingers at the others.

It is not only the NSCN but Meitei organisations that levy taxes and impact the poor people

That is common sense and a given that everyone universally accepts. I would insist that the NSCN extorts far more tax than the meitei organisations but that is not the point either. In was in the context of exposing the "pot calling the kettle black" hollowness of the "virtuous maiden raped" clamouring that the meiteis are the sole perpetrators.

It is not a question of who is more virtuous and who exploits more as both parties are equally non sparing on their exploitation opportunities as the US and THEM divide gets sharper when opportunities and education are limited and poverty endemic amongst the people. It is not a highlighting of just one side but a reminder and an expose that it is a tainted finger (maybe less tainted, but tainted nonetheless) that is being pointed at the others.

The voicing of anger and frustration of not availing an equitable opportunity is respected and accepted by all but there should be no place for manipulative prejudices specially from an educated person in our already ethnically explosive tinder box.

I found these old articles very informative ..
The MPP and the People of Manipur

Sadar Hills District: A Necessity

Date: Fri May 13, 2005 6:08 am
Subject: : Meitei bigotry accentuated by greater nagaland demands

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Manipur-Diaspora/message/3243

Get rid of the prejudices and one will not falsely accuse members in this forum of asserting such flawed, bigoted and condescending views. Though it was rude to indiscriminately use the distasteful words directed towards the ENTIRE meitei ethnic group and audacious and provoking too in a forum of moderate educated members that is predominantly of that ethnic group, the MD forum tolerates and overlooks such outspokenness as immaturity to allow such individuals to air their grievances and educate the issues rather than have it undetected and insidiously festering within the society. However wrong facts that can stir up more inter ethnic hatred should not be overlooked.

The whole premise to the objection to the statements are 2 fold.

1. Most members in the MD forum have constantly voiced that they do not ascribe to the views being accused of, and so take offence at the blanket accusation of the "monstrous meiteis raping the virtuous maiden". If they were targeted specifically to the MEELAL members and other fringe elements like the majority meiteis also do, we will all join and applaud it.
2. Most, (and again not all as there are the fringe fanatical elements, like it ALSO exist too in all ethnic groups of the WHOLE WORLD), of the meitei bigotry and scepticism is accentuated not by the rightful demands of equitable treatment of the hill minorities but by the very clear and present danger of their demands of splitting up Manipur into a greater nagalim.

Nagas ready to fight another fifty years: Muivah


e.g. the demands from the radical quarters for teaching meiteilon in the hill areas is to assert a uniform and indivisible Manipur to not give credibility to the NSCN demands of greater nagaland. I am not even going to go into whether the demands for greater nagaland is valid or not, but I am establishing that one has to factor in that fear of a break up of Manipur for any balanced assessment of meitei actions.

Sure, there are innumerable instances of dereliction of duty and diversion of funds by meitei officials not delivering services to the remote hill areas. But that is not borne of an ethnical discrimination but pure greed of corrupt individuals that you will see in the valley areas too, in all the other mono ethnic states and amongst the minorities within Manipur. Also be balanced and acknowledge the abductions, threats, bashing of engineers, theft of material and objections to appropriation of land required to implement those services and infrastructures, by the hill villages.

I have PERSONAL experience witnessing the unstinting efforts made a few decades ago in the drive to electrify all the remote villages of Manipur hill areas with very frequent supervising trips made by the top meitei officials to ensure that junior employees were not pilfering the material nor pulling the wool over the eyes of senior officials by over stating the problems faced in dispensing the project in the hilly areas.

It is only an uninformed person that discounts the geographical barriers impeding infrastructure development in the hills. It is not exactly the same task one faces in the valley area than to erect post and string cables across a hilly train with treacherous roads to boot and life threatening especially during the monsoons.

The pilfering of material happens in the valley areas too, but the culprits are easily rounded up and punished but one has to dodge the ethnical tensions if that is to be pursued amongst the hill population. Compare the time it took India to introduce rail service in the hilly areas of the NE to the time gap between providing electricity in the valley areas and in the remote hill areas of Manipur by the "monstrous and exploiting" dominant meiteis.

CM inaugurates 33/11 KV Tolloi power station


Such commendable meitei officials who took on the responsibility to deliver better services to the hill areas are certainly at a premium in this generation but that again is not a sign of an upsurge of ethnical discrimination by the majority meiteis. With state employment completely dependent on bribes, competent and conscientious individuals who faced and overcame personal hardship to realize and commit to the responsibility to uplift the plight of the poor and destitute in our society across all ethnical lines, are kept out. Only the children from richer families that do not necessarily share the same drive and sensitivities are unfortunately put in charge of the state machinery to pursue and deliver equity of opportunity and services and their dereliction of duty and failures are wrongly interpreted as collective meitei discrimination.

> "..If the "STUPID" meiteis were to demand that the DISCRIMINATORY ONE WAY restriction of almost 90% of the hill areas for only the 33% of the hill ethnic groups should be removed, would you embrace and applaud that equitable distribution demand as being "FARSIGHTED" ? .."
PROPORTIONAL representation in jobs and society for the 33% hill minorities must be guaranteed before that

The meiteis have been making that effort as job reservations have existed for OVER HALF A CENTURY. However depriving the meiteis land ownership of all the hill areas (90%) is not related and definitely not commensurate to ensuring equitable opportunities for the minorities.

SC ST debate from Manipuri Diaspora Group

"…< If the meiteis are to become SC/ST too,> …. WITHIN MANIPUR I still recommend that quotas should be made available to our minority ethnic groups for Manipur seats not because they are a minority but they are genuinely underprivileged. I even support the lowering of the MBBS marks to some extent because we need to have more doctors getting trained who will go and serve their people in the remote villages where the Meiteis are reluctant to go to…"

Demands for equity must be scaled reasonably as the hill areas within Manipur just can not get identical level of infrastructure and opportunities as the valley areas. One cant also demand a 33% sized RIMS or Manipur University or Stadium for the hills too. And that unknown equitable line must be determined by a comparable assessment of neighbouring NE states, before pointing the finger at the meiteis for ethnically subjugating the hill minorities. e.g. Do the dominant angamis in nagaland make a similar concession for the other minority tribes in nagaland ?

E-Pao.net link here
"… MEELAL leader Ch Akaba, … said that suggestions and formulas were discussed to ensure that the notion of imposing the script on anyone does not arise. The path to take a consensus formula was discussed. In a positive tone, Akaba said that the time has come to revive the script which has been dead for 276 years. …"

The library was not burnt down because MEELAL felt it belonged only to the meiteis but because of govt failures to address legitimate grievances early on. This conceding now by the govt is not because the library was burnt down or their lives threatened but the inevitable realization of the overwhelming support of ALL meiteis to revive their script and their loss of faith in further postponing the decision making, specially after having "postponed" for over 25 years ! But what is the unfortunate and flawed upshot from such precedents to future agitators ? We have to burn down libraries and railway counters to get our demands heard by our politicians and so they will resort to exactly that again in the future.

yapper :eikhoi ta'ibi bu gyan tahange hairadi meithaba darkar oiba oiramlehe. Link here

The lesson learnt is not for the govt to prevent caving in to such demands but identifying legitimate grievances early on and redressing it to reassure that legitimate demands need not be violently and destructively achieved in our democratic government. This amicable solution was reachable with not much effort from the very beginning and did not need the threat of further public property destruction not threats to their lives to reach the consensus.

But as part of the solution reached, it is very important for the govt and specially more the public to demand that MEELAL also does not escape culpability for the destruction to public property and release a statement regretting their actions and ensure that those culprits already imprisoned serve the full length of their time in jail. It could even go further with the public demanding that the MEELAL members should volunteer labour or services contributing to the reconstruction of the library before they greedily start clamouring for the new meitei mayek teaching jobs.